How do you choose what you play?

[YL West]

In years of talking with different guitarists, I have yet to find very many people who choose their pallate the same way. What I mean is when given some chords to play over, how do you arrive at the available options note or scale-wise?

I'll speak from what I'm familiar with. Its my understanding that "Devil take the Hindmost" is essetially a Gm vamp on the solo section. Holdsworth certainly draws from more than just the Gm scale!! Using a chart I made up, I would give myself at least these options: Gm, Cm, Dm, G melodic m, B harmonic m, D harmonic minor.

Thats just the start!!! Then you have to think melody, or at least I think you do??? Do you construct melodic lines and paste them in? Do you try to think in the flow?
Do you map it out and memorize licks? I use the flow approach. It lacks in melody sometimes and I stand by the fact that I am not a great guitarist, but I can convince several people that I know more than I do!! Allan says "just juggle the notes around a bunch"...is it that simple to you??

Another approach I was told, was just look at point A and point B (ie. note that starts off sounding right and note that resolves)...what happens in between is your indivdual choice and sound. Maybe a little too simple.

The way I have derived my chart is by taking a chord and finding which scales have that chord in them. Sounds pretty novel. I always refer to a scale by its minor name and forgo the designation of modes....it just leaves me with fewer things to know!!. Keep it simple stupid!

Of course, this just scratches the surface of things that can be played. You can outline the chord with a series of repeated intervals, play your favorite blues lick in the suggested key, meander chromatically landing on the root when the chord does...

So what do you do??

If you want a copy of my ridiculous chart, let me know and I'll try to scan and send it to you.

[Paul Marossy]

Honestly, I'm not that good over playing over chords (I think), unless they are the wacky chords that I play. My guideline is more how what I play makes me feel on an emotional level more than consciously thinking, oh I could play this scale or that scale. I mean I do think in those terms, but it has become less of a conscious effort for me. I guess it's more of a sub-conscious thing these days.

Now, if I could actually play with other people, I would be forced to bring all that stuff to the forefront of my mind. I have some certain formulas that I use to know what possible scales I can play, but when I play with other people, it's usually simple chords, no brainer stuff.

[YL West]

I can't just take someone's chart and play over it immediately...by sight. I have to sit down and look at how it relates to my "decyphering" chart and see what fits in. Even then I'm not comfortable playing on the fly. I usually stick in my box.

If someone gave me a chart and asked me to play just the chords on the spot I don't think I could. I don't think of music in the traditional terms. But what I've found out is to communicate with those that do, I needed to develop a vocabulary that would make sense to the average musician.

So Paul, when you have your own material with your "wacky chords" (I have those too), do you know what you can play over it because its your composition? Do you look at what you can play over it? Or do you just "work it out" as you play?

Many times, in a pinch, I will forgo the charts and decyphering and just try to play off of feel and sound. It has the potential for lots of "mistakes", but it also allows for the freedom of lines I don't feel have to fit in a certain context.

I'd love to hear other people's ideas too.

How about these chords in a 4/4 straight groove:

F#m7 - - Abm7 - - F#m7 - - C#m Maj7 (these are from "Leave them On"-AH)

[Paul Marossy]

"So Paul, when you have your own material with your "wacky chords" (I have those too), do you know what you can play over it because its your composition? Do you look at what you can play over it? Or do you just "work it out" as you play?"

Both. Sometimes I can kind of hear the lines in my head, and other times I fumble around with different things that I know/think will work until I find something with the feel/sound that I like.

I'm really an unconventional guitarist, and I do relate to Allan Holdsworth a lot - we came up with our own learning systems, etc. He's just been fortunate to play with all these different cats. I live in a bubble. :-(

[YL West]

Mine is the bubble next to yours...LOL

[Paul Marossy]

LOL. Sorry to be so negative, I'm just feeling crummy today - it's one of those "why do I bother?!" days.

[Henry Butcher]

When I saw those chords I had to stop and think..........F#m7--Abm7--....cricky what key is that?
Of course ...............it's the Dorian mode..........the Abm7 is G#m7 enharmonicly.
And C#m MAJ7, isn't that just C#m7? Or is it 2 chords?
That stumped me, other wise I could read it straight off the chart.

Anyway, I think your entire solo could be built on the first idea/motif you play.
Which could be developed further into the B section of the solo.

[Henry Butcher]

Ok , I got it......C#mMaj7 = C#..E..G#..B#.

[Eb7+9]

I don't know if this helps, but I choose tunes that contain a section of harmonic flavour that stands out from others ... I live in a part of the world that's dominated by folkies - that means that often people will play G, C and D all night long - it gets tiring to hear the same "relationships" over and over ... the same thing happens if I hear someone play in open tuning all night and uses a capo to change keys - structurally it's the same stuff ... I grew up on progressive music, if I don't hear a slash chord I start missing it ...

I do a similar thing to what you're talking about which I gleaned from Frank Gambale's modal video - I look at scales in terms of "2" triads ... major modes are reduced to the 4/5 major triads a whole tone apart while harmonic minor gets reduced to the 5/b6 major triads a half-tone apart ... stupid, but it works as far as banging out tunes and providing a convincing "improv" flavor without giving myself brain freeze

I mainly choose tunes in terms of what modal flavours they offer ... Honkey Cat has a nice mixolydian/cycle of 5 dixeyland thing happening, etc ... my main influence in this regard is Zappa, I learnt from him that boring equates with predictability - that good doesn't mean entertaining and vice versa ... playing with contrast is key here, modal contrast being one major player ...

if you mix up your choices of modes (establishing contrast between songs) I think that's practical way of setting an entertaining course - I don't even let the other guys in the band in on this cause they're not interested in the nuts at bolts as much ...

I'm very much like both of you, I like to linger on a chord or mode/mood - like Zappa, a song is but an "excuse" to jam a bitching solo somewhere ;) ... my experience is that you need very little thinking to jam with other cats - it's a lot less than I originally thought - then again I don't do jazz outside of the odd Tom Wait tune ... songs now seem like a mere excuse to hang out in those flavors for a while - just need to practice recognizing them within the actual chords progressions

Frank Gambale's video really cracked open the sky for me in this regard ... I strongly recommend it
let's see your chart YL !

btw, it might help if you write

"F#m7 - - Abm7 - - F#m7 - - C#m Maj7"

as

Gbm7 - - Abm7 - - Gbm7 - - Dbm MAJ7

or

F#m7 - - G#m7 - - F#m7 - - C#m MAJ7

mixing your flats and sharps will make it harder to think in terms of a Parent scale as Gambale refers to it
just my $0.02 ...

[YL West]

As far as the writing: definitely. I just don't think of those relationships much. And enharmonics mean little (or nothing) to me.

I'll have to dig up the chart and post it.

I try to not use the same mode or scale if the same changes roll around a 2nd time. Or at least vary it enough that it makes me try different choices.

I still don't identify with the ii-v-i or what ever "usual" chord progression folks prescribe. I just look at each chord and a relative scale in which that chord occurs.

I'd love to see the Gambale method. Which DVD are you talking about.